The Orderly Anatomy of the "Our Ancestors were Messy" Podcast
A deep dive into the historical gems and dramatic stories of Black pioneers.
Our learning shouldn't be confined to school. I believe education simply gives us a framework, a foundation to keep finding ways to gain knowledge. Every job teaches you basic skills like reading, writing, speaking, and listening. But it's up to you to develop more, to keep growing as a student. Everyone on this planet is a teacher, and at the same time, we're all students. Life can teach you so much, if you just pay attention and take notes.
In my own journey of self-discovery through African-American history, I stumbled upon an article detailing a dispute between the legendary writers Langston Hughes and James Baldwin. I was genuinely surprised by their conflict, as my formal education primarily focused on the well-known feuds of Martin Luther King and Malcolm X, or W.E.B. DuBois and Booker T. Washington (the latter of which I only learned in college, never in high school, but I digress). Discussing this with poet and writer Joel Francois, he shed light on many of the potential feelings, both unspoken and spoken, that existed between Hughes and Baldwin. Chief among these could have been elements of colorism and jealousy over popularity (Langston, being more favored for his looks, while Baldwin held more critical acclaim).
I found myself conflicted. On one hand, it was refreshing; while unity is and always should be paramount among those who share our appearance and history, it's okay not to fully agree with or even like your brethren—the phrase “all skinfolk ain’t kinfolk” perfectly captures this sentiment. On the other hand, it was unfortunate that two distinguished writers would harbor such tension in a world already so against them.
This conversation about their lesser-known conflict led me to a podcast suggested by Francois: Nicole Hill’s “Our Ancestors Were Messy.” This was my introduction to the tumultuous relationship between Langston Hughes and Zora Neale Hurston. Through this podcast, I learned far more about Langston Hughes as a person than I ever thought possible. In school, he was almost exclusively presented for his poetry. But beyond that, this podcast revealed countless historical gems and lessons from the men and women who looked like me and came before me, demonstrating how conflict can actually be a powerful foundation for history.
Launched in 2024, Hill’s podcast embarks on a beautifully narrated journey through history and triumph, sharing the stories of innovators and featuring special guests who delve into these narratives. Not only do you get the inside scoop on these figures and their drama, but the podcast also walks you through how some of these disputes led to inspiring developments, giving these unsung heroes the recognition they deserve. This innovative approach, blending a colloquial term like “messy” with rich historical advancements, complex problems, and entertaining storytelling, is what makes this podcast so compelling. Among the ten episodes in Season 1, my favorite was the story of Oscar Micheaux (January 2, 1884 – March 25, 1951), featured in Season 1, Episode 2. Micheaux, born in Metropolis, IL, is considered the pioneer of African-American filmmaking.
His journey into film notably stemmed from a feud with his wife’s father and their treatment of him. In this episode, featuring Dr. Ray Christian, we learn about Micheaux’s character, his move to South Dakota to purchase land and work as a homesteader (the podcast humorously notes his struggles in this role), and his connections to affluent individuals who eventually assisted his foray into filmmaking.
Hill’s podcast skillfully guides us through the “messy” aspects of his life, particularly the turmoil surrounding his 1910 marriage to Orlean McCracken. Their marriage dissolved due to the loss of their child, Orlean’s loneliness, and her minister-father—with whom Micheaux was already in conflict—stealing money and selling his land while he was away working. The podcast powerfully illustrates how this chaotic feud with his wife’s family and father ultimately catalyzed his creation of many films, paving the way for numerous African-American filmmakers today.
Hill’s podcast is an independent production that needs support as it prepares for Season 2. You can contribute through a paid subscription or by donating on her page, which will help fund continued historical discoveries. Additionally, joining her email list will keep you updated on the latest episodes and behind-the-scenes developments. I strongly encourage you to give it a listen; it’s available on many platforms, and you, too, will gain a profound perspective, respect, and adoration for the ancestors whose “mess” ultimately cleared a path for creativity today. It’s up to us how we continue to gain knowledge, and luckily, we have Nicole Hill providing amazing commentary and insight into our African-American history.
